My Genealogy Pages Covering The Middle Ages
starting at the farms O in Vang and Botner in Høland via
Sigurd Havtorsson to Giske, District Judge and Council of the Kingdom

Not being able to prove how, it is most certainly, however, that their descendants are
found among the 16th century families at O in Vang and Botner in Høland. See graphics

Extract from meeting minutes in the Genalogen from NSF's theme evening about the Bratt family 28.12.1998 authored by Tore H. Vigerust: 2. Bratt, Guttorm Eindridsesson's family. ....     As this is a meeting report, not an independent article, I will content myself with raising a small problem. It concerns the question of whether Guttorm Bratt Endridsson's wife, Cecilie Petersdotter of the Skjåk family from Skjåk, was of royal descent. No researchers have demonstrated such a family connection. Cecilie was allegedly the daughter of an unknown sister of the nobles Eivind Gjordsson (at O in Vang in Hedemarken) and Jon Gjordsson (at Botner in Høland in Akershus), known in the period 1438-1471. These two belonged to the O family and indeed descend from King Håkon 5 Magnusson. Their descendants are to be sought in the later O family and the Botner family from Høland. It is quite obvious that farmers in the 17th century there are descendants of the royal family Sverre.

Person Index	Family Name Index	Geographical Index	Sources

Gyrd Ingjaldsson at O, his sons (and possible daughter) and their immediate ancestors:

Jon Gyrdsson. Mentioned 1438. Died after 1448. Eivind Gyrdsson. Born about 1400 at O, Vang (HE). Known until 1471. Advisory Juryman. ??? Gyrdsdatter(?) Skidaker. Known about 1480.	Gyrd Ingjaldsson at O. Known from 1385 until 1400 at O, Vang (HE).	Ingjald Guttormsson at O. Born about 1330 at O, Vang (HE). Known until 1361 at O, Vang (HE). District Judge.
			Gudrid at O. Mentioned 1348 and 1349 at O, Vang (HE).
		Cecilia Sigurdsdatter at O. Mentioned 1360 at O, Vang (HE). Died before 1370 at O, Vang (HE).	Sigurd Havtorsson to Giske. Born about 1315 at Sørum (Sudreim, Skedjuhof), Sørum (AK). Dead about 1392. District Judge and Council of the Kingdom. Son of Havtore Jonsson to Sudreim and Agnes Håkonsdatter to Sudreim a daughter of kong Håkon V Magnusson of Norway.
			Ingeborg Erlingsdatter to Bjarkøy and Giske. Born about 1320 på Sørum (Sudreim, Skedjuhof), Sørum (AK). Ded about 1370.
	??? Eivindsdatter. Born about 1360 at Botner, Løken, Høland (AK). Lived 1400 at O, Vang (HE).	Eivind Astesson Botner. Known from 1340 until 1362 at Botner, Løken, Høland (AK).	Ester Bonde [i.e. farmer] at Botner. Mentioned 1329 at Botner, Løken, Høland (AK).
		Tora ???.

From The Norwegian Archives' Forum.
[#11301] The Botner family from Høland.

Guest: Kenneth Holter. November 18, 2002.
 Can anyone tell me about the Botner family and its royal connection? Is the royal origin of the Botner family recognized? First of all, I see that there is a gap between Torkild Botner (b.1564) and Eivind Gyrdsson. Is it safe to say that the former is a descendant of the latter? If so, has any new information about the relationship come to light?
 My second question is whether there are reliable sources that confirm that Cecilia Sigurdsdatter (daughter of Sigurd Haftoreson, daughter of Håkon 5.) was the mother of Ingjald Guttormson's children (Ingjald Guttormson is The Botner family's alleged ancestor).Is there any research done on Ingjald Guttormson's ancestors (his mother's name was Gyrid, if I remember correctly)?
 Hope someone can answer these questions.

Sincerely, Kenneth Holter.
 
Guest: Lars Løberg. November 18, 2002.
 Here we can probably say like Olof Palme: The question is posed incorrectly. The question should not be whether the Botner family's royal origin is recognised, but whether it has been proven. It is not. Whether new information about kinship has emerged here depends entirely on how up-to-date you are on recent literature. Odd Ottesen is the last to have published research in the area.

Guest: Kenneth Holter. November 20, 2002.
 Odd Ottesen is not exactly 'new', if you think about the book. Has he written anything else since? Perhaps I should ask my question in a different way, then: If you set reasonably strict requirements for accuracy in the genealogy, does the Botner family stop with Torkild Botner, or can you 'safely' put him as Eivind Gyrdsson's grandson? Does anyone have views on this? This will presumably be a matter of discretion, and with my limited knowledge of the sources dealing with the genus, I am not in a position to make such discretionary decisions. But I would very much like to be as accurate as possible. etc.,
 Kenneth Holter 

Guest: Odd Ottesen. November 20, 2002.
 As Lars Løberg points out, it has not been proven that the family that lived at Botner from the early 16th century at the latest had any connection with the old Norwegian royal house. During the 20 years that have passed since 'Slekten Botner i Høland' was published, I have not come across documents that could shed clarifying light on the family in the Middle Ages.
 It is by no means certain that Halle Torkjellsson at Botner (mentioned 1528-1564) descends from Eivind Gyrdsson (mentioned 1438-1471). In 1982 I presented and discussed information that could speak for a possible connection between the two men mentioned, without being able to prove such a connection. On the other hand, it is quite clear that the letter of 1448 (DN III, no. 797) provides information that must be considered as evidence of the following conditions:

Jon Gyrdsson (mentioned 1448) was the son of Gyrd Ingjaldsson in O (in Vang in Hedmark), and Gyrd was again the son of Ingjald (Guttormsson) in O (mentioned
 1346-1361) and his wife Cecilie, daughter of lord Sigurd (Haftorsson) in Giske. If Jon Gyrdsson is the man of the same name, mentioned in 1443 (DN IX, no. 288), together with his brother Eivind Gyrdsson, Eivind is also the grandson of his wife Cecilie Sigurdsdotter.

In 'Slekten Botner' I suggested that Halle Torkjellsson's father-in-law Mons Gudbrandsson(?) could be identical to Mons on O, mentioned in 1528. I now consider this assumption to be so weakly founded that it should be dropped.

Kind regards, Odd Ottesen.

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